My Response: Audism, Collectivism and Individualism
by webmaster on Nov.01, 2009, under Politics
This is my response to people who asked for clarification about audism, individualism and collectivism.
Any attack or irrelevant comment will not be published.
Thanks
Deafchip
36 Comments for this entry
Leave a Reply
-
Hi! Welcome to Deaf Chipmunk!
Thanks for dropping by! Feel free to join the discussion by leaving comments, and stay updated by subscribing to the RSS feed. See ya around!
Canada
November 1st, 2009 on 2:28 pm
Hi David,
I wish to let you know that there is no video on your page. I looked at the web’s message bottom, abd it says, “Done, but with errors on page.”
Have a good day.
Jean
November 1st, 2009 on 2:30 pm
I am a magician! It works! — Right away after I posted my comment.
November 1st, 2009 on 4:33 pm
Anyone can be audusit. It DOES NOT apply ONLY to hearing people. Deaf people can be AUDIST. (SOME OF SENTENCES ARE REMOVED DUE TO TARGET GROUPS BY WEBMASTER). I don’t understand why you do point your finger to hearing people only.
November 1st, 2009 on 5:28 pm
Hi Jean,
Wow, I wish I could get your magic wand!!!
November 1st, 2009 on 5:33 pm
Hi Meowie,
Hearing people can be called audists if they know Deaf can do well off but still think hearing person is better than Deaf person.
Deaf people CANNOT be called audists because they are not hearing. However Deaf people can make audistic comments and they can be called dysconcious audists who believe hearing people are better than themselves, Deaf people, no matter how well they are or how intelligent they are.
November 1st, 2009 on 8:07 pm
In responce to my email, Dr. Tom Humphrey and Dr. Harlan Lane
have said that audism is referred to both some hearing people as well as to some deaf people.
November 1st, 2009 on 10:38 pm
Hi Jean,
Yes both of Deaf and hearing people can make audistic comments. For hearing people, they are called audists and for Deaf people, they are called dysconscious audists. Yes I agree with Tom and Harlan’s comments that audism is referred to some of both of them. For more information about dysconscious audists, you can check the book called OPEN YOUR EYES, where the dysconscious audism discussion is.
David
November 1st, 2009 on 10:42 pm
Hi Meowie,
Deaf people can become dysconscious audists. Yes I am aware that some people do not agree with my comment regarding Deaf being audists. I am not sure if you have a book called OPEN YOUR EYES that the dysconscious audism is mentioned. Dr. Genie Gertz wrote article about dysconscious audism. I find that very interesting.
Thanks
David
November 2nd, 2009 on 1:13 am
Hi David,
Merci beaucoup for the title of a book. I wonder why no one is discussing “Open Your Eyes” or “Dysconscious Audism” here in the mecca of the deaf (Gallaudet). They talk about AUDISM all the time, but no mention of “Dysconcious Audism.” Can you give us an example or two of “Dysconcious Audism” in your next vlog?
Merci.
November 2nd, 2009 on 3:30 am
I keep seeing the word “dysconscious” coming up now and then. Can you tell me what that word means? as I don’t see it in any dictionaries either.
November 2nd, 2009 on 8:37 am
I agreed with Jean Boutcher that Gallaudet University and NTID should offer to add new information on Dysconscious Audism in the classroom to discuss among the students essentially.
Your vlog is an valuable education to our audience to take different dimension of perspectives to share each other. Thank you!
Nick
November 2nd, 2009 on 8:53 am
According to dictionary.com, the prefix dys- has the following definition:
<<>>
So this would mean “bad audism” or “ill audism”?
I think what is meant (without having read the Gertz paper) is actually unconscious audism. A deaf person can internalize hearing standards so much that he unconsciously believes hearing is better than deaf in some way.
Personally, I would never use the word audism or any of its derivatives against a DEAF person. It weakens the meaning and makes it incomprehensible. Not even with the words unconscious or dysconscious. The d/Deaf negativity towards other deaf people deserves to have a different word: “oppression” comes to mind as a handy, general and nonspecific word..
November 2nd, 2009 on 9:22 am
Valhallian,
I had to search for more information about the word “dysconscious” too. I had better luck using google and they even have Dyconscious Racism, http://www.jstor.org/pss/2295605
Guess that we need to be flexible to understand dysconscious audists more and the whys by reading other similar issues like dyconscious racism.
my 2¢
November 2nd, 2009 on 12:08 pm
Yea John, I did see that dysconscious was used for the word racism and it had me thinking that was how it became used for dysconscious audism. But the thing is I still cannot find a definition that alone explains what dysconscious means.
But since you bring up dysconscious racism. I guess some people say its ok to use dysconscious audism because its used when explaining dysconscious racism. But a while back, I was “attacked” for suggesting the use of reverse audism, the reality is that reverse racsim term is also used. why is it ok for people to say that dysconscious can be used but reverse cannot?
I’m not intentionally trying to stir the pot here, to be honest, its actually more of me wanting to understand why its ok to use one term, but not the other.
November 2nd, 2009 on 6:10 pm
Hi Jean,
“Open Your Eyes” is very new and it was published just last year. I bought it this year… The book’s editor is H-Dirksen L. Bauman. It has many different articles in one book. All is based on Deaf Studies.
November 2nd, 2009 on 6:30 pm
Hi Valhallian,
I can see you are struggling with the term of dysconscious. It is more of miseducated and distorted conscious.
That applies to any oppressed people who think oppressor is superior to them such as racism, sexism, ableism, audism, other isms.
Now about your discussion regarding reversed. Reversed cannot apply to “ism” because it is not logical to apply to oppressed people. Do you mean the oppressed people oppress oppressing people? I just wonder about that. Dysconscious audism is about oppressed Deaf people oppressing oppressed Deaf people as well as think hearing is better than Deaf in any way (awareness or unawareness). That leads to Deaf vs Deaf… You can look at Native Americans, Australian natives, Africians, Indians (India) and many other races/countires that have or had been controlled and colonized by other races or countries.
David
November 2nd, 2009 on 6:32 pm
David -
May I please have the reference of Dr. Genie Dertz’s published article?
Thank you,
Kathryn
November 2nd, 2009 on 6:34 pm
Sorry!
Typos: Dr. Genie Gertz
Thanks,
Kathryn
November 2nd, 2009 on 6:35 pm
Hi Dianrez,
Thanks for asking me question… it is more of miseducated and distorted conscious that I mentioned just above this message.
I can see your concern about that and I in fact agree with you but I think it is healthy for us to face the reality and yes we are in a new age of information that has been overwhelming most of us… I think it is time for us to go through challenges to gain ourselves more awareness about ourselves. For centuries, we have not known about ourselves. It is time for us to know more about ourselves and be aware of whats going on whether it is good or bad… we must go through. Old saying: No pain, No gain.
David
November 2nd, 2009 on 6:36 pm
Hi Nick,
Thanks for your positive message… yes I agree with you that the book should be read by Gallaudet students to help them know more about themselves (part of their process according to Deafhood concept).
David
November 2nd, 2009 on 6:37 pm
Dr. Gertz draws upon Dr. Joyce King’s work on dysconscious racism. Read the article. It’s available via Google Books and it isn’t very long at all.
November 2nd, 2009 on 6:41 pm
Hi John,
Thanks for referring this for me about the term of dysconscious racism as well as audism…
November 2nd, 2009 on 6:44 pm
HI Kathryn,
Well Observer has answered your question… go to google books and type the name of book “Open Your Eyes”, then look for the term of Dysconscious Audism – DR. Genie Gertz…
Smile
David
November 2nd, 2009 on 6:45 pm
Observer,
You already answered Kathryn’s question about google books. Thanks for referring that.
David
November 2nd, 2009 on 6:48 pm
If anyone really wants to access an incomplete article on dysconscious audism, it can be found through Google’s Books search. Google on the key words: dysconscious, audism and gertz. First, go to http://books.google.com/books?hl=en . Then, enter the keywords in the box and click on the search button. Click on the link to the book “Open Your Eyes” and this will bring you to the incomplete chapter on the subject.
Joseph Pietro Riolo
josephpietrojeungriolo@gmail.com
Public domain notice: I put all of my expressions in this post in the public domain.
November 2nd, 2009 on 6:55 pm
While I was composing my post, I did not see the post made by the anonymous person identified as “observer”. Now that he or she already mentioned a way to access the article, my post now becomes redundant. I leave the decision to the blogger to remove my posts.
Joseph Pietro Riolo
josephpietrojeungriolo@gmail.com
Public domain notice: I put all of my expressions in this post in the public domain.
November 2nd, 2009 on 6:59 pm
David, the only thing I am struggling with when it comes to the term “dysconscious” is finding the actual meaning of the word in itself. When I google it, i see it used along with racism, along with audism, but I dont see it anywhere used as a stand alone word, therefore begs the question, what does the word “dysconscious” in itself mean?
If you were to look at the word dysfunctional in terms of sociology, according to dictionary.com, it means that its a consequence of a social practice or behavior pattern that undermines the stability of a social system. That being the case, could one apply “dysfunctional audism” word? cuz the audism word is obviously undermining the stability the stability of a deaf community in general if that makes sense.
But when I type in dysconscious in dictionary.com, no results come up, hence, another reason for my asking what it actually means. I am not saying its not a word, i’m just asking what it means?
In terms of reverse “isms”, I am not intentionally agreeing to disagree with you here, but I have to respectfully disagree with you there because you can actually google these words, “reverse racism”, “reverse sexism”, “even “reverse ageism” result in hits in that search engine. In other words, reverse racism does indeed mean the practice of favoring members of a historically disadvantaged group at the expense of members of a historically advantaged group. Altho reverse discrimination is also used in that same sense. As an example, a black may not hire another black person because that person is black, that is reverse racism.
That being the case, audism refers to the deaf, so if a deaf person is against another person because that person is deaf, logic tells me that reverse audism would apply.
However, if I actually knew what the dysconscious word actually meant in itself, then perhaps its a word I could use. I just don’t want to be caught in a spot where I try to explain dysconscious audism and I get a response questioning me what “dysconscious” actually means and I can’t answer it ya know?
I do somewhat question your meaning when you say it is “miseducated and distorted conscious” because its actually easily argumentative that a person doing the dysconscious audism is not actually miseducated or distorted. They could be well educated, but just do not agree with the meaning for their own reasons, we cannot exactly say that they are miseducated ya know?
Lastly, it is not my intention to try to see a debate to see who wins, but I do find this to be very educational and quite informative and its certainly worthy of a continued discussion.
November 2nd, 2009 on 7:10 pm
I just quickly skimmed through that link, the dysconscious racism aspect seems to refer to dysconscious as “impaired conscious”. Now to quote Gertz here, “the marked difference between ‘unconscious’ and ‘dysconscious’ when used with the word audism is that the word unconscious implies that the person is completely unaware whereas the word dysconscious implies that the person does have an inkling of his or her consciousness but does not yet realize it is impaired.”
That has me thinking at the moment that the word dysconscious may have different meanings when used with racism as opposed to audism, however, It does appear to be an interesting article that I would have to read more carefully when I get home from work.
November 2nd, 2009 on 7:35 pm
Hi Valhallian,
My wife and I just went out for a walk with our pug during the evening with full moon in the wilderness behind our home. It is quite lovely night… Thanks to my wife for pulling me out of computer world… eh…
Valhallian, I have no problem with your discussion and argument that I find are good and reasonable that make me think and discuss. Yes you are right, there is no point for us to look for any winning trophy, for what, myself or yourself… no that is part of our process to learn. If not, then how can we learn… It is healthy to debate because that is how we grow…
We can find many new information through discussion and perhaps new words coming…
You know there are many new words coming every day and people realize that there are many more words out of new word that could not be matched with new meaning then add up more.
There are so many new things (words, meanings, ideas, behaviours, attitudes, beliefs, etc) (in fact, very old things that we overlook for thousands of years) We go deeper and deeper and we cannot escape becuase we want to know who we are and so on… that is part of human nature isnt it.. The more we understand the more we question… and so on…
Perhaps all species on earth think human beings are nuts….
Yes I do believe in audism and dysconscious audism and of course perhaps more new words related to audism.
David
November 2nd, 2009 on 7:35 pm
Hi, David!
Already in Canada’s system?? Signless. So surreal if it were in our system by then, ha..
Meowie – I know a lot of Deafies who speak or hear with hearing aids or CI are very Deaf-centeric people. Again, I know a few Deaf people that you are referring to.
Interesting about Canada’s system….
November 2nd, 2009 on 7:52 pm
Hi deafk
It is just beginning in Canada but still not part of legal system… education is our first tool by promoting awareness about audism. I understand that Ontario Human Rights Commission is now interested in a new concept of audism. We have made many different avenues to make the term of audism recognized as much as possible. It is not about “if” anymore but it will be “WHEN”… I am looking forward to it…
David
November 2nd, 2009 on 8:52 pm
David, I am now at home and I have taken the time to read Gertz’s article using the following information from above commenter. Due to reading this article, I am now seeing dysconscious audism in a different light.
While I recall Humphries stating that audism can apply to both hearing and deaf people. Audism focuses primarily on the ear and the mouth which I also understand as well. But what I gather from Gertz’s article, she is stating that what dysconscious audism means is where a deaf person would actually see acts of audism occur, but they do little or nothing about it.
She stated as an example about a person that was removed from CSDR and it was perceived as audistic by the hearing people there as they were the ones that got her removed, and it was perceived as dysconscious audism where the deaf people at the school did not defend this person or did not do anything about it.
That being the case, I now understand and agree that dysconscious audism is NOT reverse audism.
The way I see it, reverse audism is a completely different definition from dysconscious audism, simply because reverse audism is not an act of doing little or nothing, but an act of doing something.
while audism focus on the ear and the mouth, however, English can actually be referred to the mouth and the eye, as we have the spoken and written version of English. English can be spoken through the mouth, or read through the eye, as well as through the fingers if we want to include blind people in the equation, in addition to the hands and body, when it comes to Sign English users.
I realize bilingualism is a great way to go, as it involves both the use of ASL and English. But if people say English should be written only and not spoken, is that audistic related? I know my answer to this but I won’t state it here in order to get you guys thinking.
If an ASL based signer mocks a Sign English, because of the overall relation to English, could this be perceived as audistic as well?
Lots of questions here, but at least I know understand what dysconscious audism really means based on Gertz’s paper, simply put, its a deaf person knowing audism when you see it, but do little or nothing about it.
Naturally, this could hurt the process of trying to unite the entire deaf and hard of hearing communities, but what hurts is more is where people actually take actions to make the problems worse. that being the case what would you call it? I know some people have termed it as horizontal oppression, but that is a very general term as well. What is a term that we can use to know that it is specifically deaf related?
Would love to hear your thoughts.
November 2nd, 2009 on 9:59 pm
I just removed one comment due to attack on target groups and edited one comment.
MM and Nikki brought up their concerns about the comments and I appreciated their concerns and I have edited one comment and removed another one.
Thank you
Deafchip
November 2nd, 2009 on 10:02 pm
Valhallan,
YOu have brought up many more questions that I could not answer all of them… Some of them have to be discussed… we need more discussion…
I feel comfortable to discuss in person or video than this vlog. Some of issues that you have brought up are new to me and I may or may not make right comment. SOme may disagree and some may agree.
For example, the term of racism has been disputed ever since but more and more people have agreed with common concept of racism. It depends on many different factors…
I would love to chat with you in person…
November 3rd, 2009 on 1:09 am
David,
I do have a VP at home altho I do not use it as much as I should. I do know ASL somewhat fluently, or at least I think I do. The reason I blogged, or at least I used to as I do not have that kind of time to do more for the time being, instead of vlogging is because I still consider English as my first language.
I can totally understand wanting to carry on this conversation away from the public, cuz not every single detail needs to be seen in the public. Cuz that way while you and I may disagree in a respectful way, but it can get blown out of proportion by others watching if this were done in public if that makes sense. I am in the process of moving closer to where I work (I’ve gotten fed up with rush hour traffic since we have moved to a new office) and perhaps once I have completed that (by around the end of the month) we can try to set up a time to do a VP chat.
You have one of my email addresses as that gets submitted each time I put in a response, altho it is not my primary email and I don’t check it as much as I should so perhaps around the end of the month, when I have commented on one of your future blogs, you can let me know via responses that you’ve sent me an email with your VP number and we can have a chat via VP and I look forward to that as well.
November 3rd, 2009 on 7:22 am
Hi Valhallian
Yes I agree some of discussion should not be published in public becuase it could get blown out of proportion…
You can email me at deafchipmunk@gmail.com to exchange your regular email address. We can vp and find a right day. Yes I have been busy as well as yours..
Thanks for bringing it up and I appreciate that..
Look forward to recieving your message
David