Bad news for you. Your baby is deaf! Sorry!
by webmaster on Nov.02, 2008, under ASL
The Health Care system’s negative approach toward deaf can be prevented! The approach can be changed to positive by empowering and providing parents healthy information about Deaf resources and Bilingualism (ASL and English).
75 Comments for this entry
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Canada
November 4th, 2008 on 5:45 pm
By the way, people have already accomplished a lot. ASL Think Tank is already very successful as a clearing house. We also made national contributions to advocacy and rights of Deaf people, including deaf children and interpreters. We will continue to make more accomplishments.
November 4th, 2008 on 5:45 pm
Hi ex-oralist!
You have said it all. Yes! That is as simple as the idea that all babies and children need protection of human rights!
Language is one of the most important aspect of human life!
Cheers!
Deafchip
November 4th, 2008 on 5:46 pm
correction: clearinghouse site
November 4th, 2008 on 6:30 pm
Mishkazena,
You are already well-known about how sly you are in misleading people!
AS you say #51, “We will continue to make more accomplishments”….for who? Your group’s egomaniac or the Deaf babies?
I don’t see it anywhere. Show me! Show the Deaf community your accomplishment!
I am getting tired of you and your group to “crab theory” other Deaf people or organization by your past actions.
To cleanse yourself, you need to stop your selfish attitudes and start helping Deaf babies and children in schools to be fulfilled with a visual language that enables them to learn other vocational tools such as speak and hear.
I think that DBC wants to see that parents are fully informed to decide what is best and many parents already do realize about ASL but seems that the other organization are having a big leverage to sway the parents from realizing that. And it is you and your misguided group seems to confuse everyone which these biased organizations are happy to have your kind of mixed thoughts that parents have the right to be misinformed but have to live with it. That is too ridiculous to accept and rectification is needed to be done about that kind of thinking.
An oralist, who suffered a lot!
November 4th, 2008 on 6:36 pm
Ex-oralist,
To write an article that will get attention and respect from professionals and parents takes about an average of about one to two weeks, few hours a day with several people working on it. It is a lot of work to “walk the talk” : )
We are volunteering and do what we can do. We are fine with few real good stuffs than to keep on blah blah.
Result: Our website’s google analysis shows about 8,000 visitors since Feb, each single different visitor. We received e-mail messages how professionals, university professors, and parents were able to use our factsheet and information for their own needs. Of last month, we got 431 new visitors and the average time each visitor spent on the web is about 2 min 30 sec.
How many entries do not count as much as quality of information and frequent visitors getting the right information, especially that it attracts parents.
November 4th, 2008 on 7:56 pm
I hope readers and bloggers here understand that there are several good organizations out there besides DBC that are doing their damndest via different advocacy approaches to get information about sign language as an equally viable option to hearing parents of deaf children. To accuse MZ, DP, and others of crab theory, sarcasm, selfishness, as troublemakers and so on is belittling their efforts.
My point here is that EVERYONE has something to contribute towards this cause, meaning DBC doesn’t have the corner market on this cause, this cause belongs to the deaf community. There will always be divergent views among even d/Deaf people on how to solve the problem of advocating and marketing ASL for deaf babies, but the cause is the one goal that DBC and other organizations are focused on.
The organizations’ approaches are all different but the destination is the same, folks.
Time to stop the hairsplitting and let each organization do its job.
November 4th, 2008 on 8:02 pm
AnneMarie,
Good!….as long you help Deaf babies to be fulfilled with visual language to learn English.
But you let your friends, MZ, Amy, deaf pundit continue to pull down other groups to help Deaf babies and children in schools to have bilingual language(ASL/English) to learn much as they can, but seems according to parents’ right to be misinformed by these biased organizations that don’t support visual language which you say that “it is up to the parents being gullible” and you say that it is fully informed decision regardless…Why?
NO NEED FOR DEAF BABIES TO SUFFERED LIKE I DID!
Ex-oralist
November 4th, 2008 on 8:06 pm
Ex oralist, sly? egomaniac? selfish? tsk tsk Don’t you know that once you restore into personal insults, that means you cannot discuss the topic.
Address to the topic, not the person.
When you are ready to talk on the topic instead of attacking people, then I’ll discuss with you. I am sure people don’t care to read petty personal insults as they are NOT constructive. They actually reflect poorly on the person who makes these insults.
I am getting the impression that some people consider different views ‘crab theory’. Yikes, that says a lot about intolerance to a diversity of thoughts and ideas. Do you tell think tanks, college students, forums, philosophers, and teachers that they practice crab theory, too?
I will show you my list of accomplishment if you show me yours
By the way, I appreciate Deaf Chipmunk’s approach. We are getting close in understanding where each other stands and it turns out we do agree on the goals. Thanks, Deaf Chipmunk
November 5th, 2008 on 12:57 am
Mishka Zena’s messages are very dictatorial.
She is upstaging David’s vlogpost. Fans of
David ought to get out of Mishka Zena’s
hot oven.
November 5th, 2008 on 11:07 am
One of the visitors, the most important question is why do some Deaf people feel threatened by healthy discussions? Deaf Chipmunk and I were actually making progress, understanding better where each other stand, then ex oralist came in to derail the conversation with ugly insults. What’s the purpose of his disruption of the constructive conversation? Then you came in, with more insults. I sure hope I am wrong, but I am getting the impression some of you do not want us to have a good and intelligent discussion. If that’s the case, I wonder why. I understand Deaf Chipmunk’s reasoning better now and vice versa. Does this make some people uneasy?
Something is going on here. I’ve already received comments about how a positive dialogue here was disrupted by others using fake names. It’s already very obvious to the spectators. They are also wondering why.
One of the visitors, please show me where I was being dictatorial in my comments with David. Asking for clarification is dictatorial? Listening to him and sharing my opinion are dictatorial? Please do clarify.
Lastly, Deaf Chipmunk, again I appreciate our thoughtful discussion.
November 5th, 2008 on 11:53 am
deaf chipmunk,
i am not trying to take any sides to debate against each other but just voice my thought to respect everyone in balance of your blogs.
i am all for your positive vibe should be brought in doctor’s or nurse’s attitude to calm parent about deaf baby after newborn hearing test. deaf is not end of world. hospital should be added to training program how to handle positive response.
any hospital should be mandatory to include asl in the unbiased information but you CAN’T omit the avt, ci, cued, oral, etc… in brochures because the all information must be included equally as unbiased to provide to parent about all resource out there.
of course, avt & ci have a lot money from market to invest $ in designing good brochures to attract parent’s favour. asl is free and don’t have stock or market to invest any $ in designing nice brochure. can you get federal money to invest $ in designing brochure look professional for asl to keep head of other avt/ci?
please keep in mind that parental rights still does exist to make decision by parent for deaf baby. but you can sue hospital for discrimination against asl by being favour in avt or ci as long as you pass the bill for the hospital to be mandatory to provide all unbiased information without being in favour.
the parental rights is valid that no one can’t sue parent’s choice vs baby’s right language. that mean you or our deaf community must be proactive to advocate asl on unbiased information among others like avt, oral, cued, etc… in equally but hopefully unbiased information will reel parent in to check out the asl if it will benefit their baby than ci or avt if it requires parent’s time to learn asl too. that leave us the part to convince parent about good thing to invest their time in asl but not to paint the doctor or nurse the evil but we should paint the avt/ci the evil cuz ci can be risk for surgery then why risk baby’s life.
off the point, long story short, i personally asked the lawyer the hypothetical question. he is specialized in disability law. can any hearing parent can decline (reject) the hospital’s offering an asl interpreter for their deaf child cuz parent rather want to interpret for their child against their child’s wish? unfortunately, lawyer said that hospital has to honor parental rights first before their child’s right. i asked a lawyer different question to let me put it another way. what if deaf child is abused by parent who hit their deaf child with bruise. what if doctor asks the child what happens to the bruise but parent takes over to interpret in order to cover up their mistake and said something else that their child fell from upstairs. so the question is how will doctor knows if parent tell the truth or not for their child’s bruise.
lawyer said that no matter hospital still has to honor parental rights to interpret for their deaf child for whatever their reason is perhaps privacy. only thing that hospital personnel can do its duty to suspect anything else like odd story didn’t support the bruise before to report it to police. police only can take over to inspect. the bottom is, parental rights remain to empowered the rights to parent over baby’s language. of course, you are right that parent can’t take over right to injure or to kill baby’s body.
the question, do you think you find the loophole to prove baby’s right for language over the parental rights. i suggest you check double with your top best lawyer’s interpretation to prove me wrong. of course, i want to be wrong in order to save baby’s right. but please don’t confused the issue between language vs body for baby’s right.
cuong aka buzz
November 5th, 2008 on 12:32 pm
Hi cuong aka buzz
I find your comment very interesting and I really appreciate your point of view.
I just tried to make a point about parents’ rights. The law has power to limit parents’ rights based on various reasons such as abuse, mental abuse, neligent and many others.
There are two different concepts of rights and options (options: usually reserved for parents).
Every child has a right to access language that no one on earth can take away.
Every parent has a right to make options for their own children as long as options do not interfere rights.
Options are not languages but tools.
Many parents have been overrwhelmed due to too many options that they tend to get confused and tend to accept specialists’ recommendation(s). Many of them end up unhappy with recommendations later. Many of them wish they could do differently. Is marketing fair for them because it looks good but in reality, it does not. For example, dealer sells car that attracts buyer who has no idea what the car would be like in the future. Then the buyer bought it and found out later that it is not what he wanted.
That is one area I am very concerned about and is very UNFAIR to all parents and their own children.
Make sure parents are given full support by giving Deaf children Bilingualism as part of safety net.
That will help parents a peace of mind and give parents real control, not anyone but parents.
Yes the challenge has not been in court yet but it will someday because there are working case on that now.
We do not take parents right away, but we just want to protect human rights for babies.
Oh yes parents have every right to know all options and language rights as well.
The problem is that the some people have abused the system that concerns me the most.
We still very much respect parents’ rights. No question about that. I am a father and my parent rights are very important to me
Deafchip
November 5th, 2008 on 12:41 pm
cuong aka buzz
I forgot to add…
Parents can make decision about options such as want their children to use AVT. That is part of options. English and ASL are not options but language. So people tend to confuse that ASL is not a language but a tool. that is not correct. English is a language therefore ASL is a language. If parents want their baby to use hearing aid, that is option and many other stuff.
I know some people do not agree even if they understand or do not understand my discussion… That is fine with me.
It is important for people to be aware of our deep concern about the system.
Deafchip
November 5th, 2008 on 12:48 pm
Mishkazena, your recent response about me is appreciated.
I hope one day we all work together for the best interest of Deaf babies and Bilingualism.
Deafchip
November 5th, 2008 on 1:49 pm
cuong aka buzz, that is an interesting dilemma. I would consult an ADA lawyer. I don’t know if this subject has been covered or not. This is disturbing, I must admit.
Deaf Chipmunk, me too
Elizabeth
November 5th, 2008 on 2:53 pm
Hi everyone!
I have information that we would like to share with you. It is about lingustic genocide research. It is an excellent resource that I am sure will benefit everyone to understand views.
Here it is http://www.terralingua.org/2/DeafHR.html
Thanks
Deafchip
November 5th, 2008 on 5:11 pm
David,
I suggest you to make another Vlog/Blog about your #66.
Gosh, that is so important and needs to be reached to more readers/viewers in DR!
This is amazing!!!! ….about http://www.terralingua.org/2/DeafHR.html
Respectfully yours!,
John Egbert
November 5th, 2008 on 5:32 pm
I like the idea of making it real clear to parents that ASL IS NOT a tool or communication system, just like English is not so.
I also find the concept of parental rights over language choice for their children indeed intriguing. Very powerful I think.
Suppose parents decide that their kids speak only Spanish, no English at home. That is their business, we cannot tell them what to do. See. Speaking of school, everyone has no choice but learn English. It is really an unwritten rule.
Speaking of Deaf ed program, it varies. Now it leaves to “guess” the child’s capacity to acquire English alone without ASL. I strongly agree that it is always a risk. Always.
The question is “taking a risk and see hope” violation of human right to language? ASL is becoming more readily available than ever that lack of support and implement is becoming inexcusable and discriminatory and violation of human right?
Hmm..
November 5th, 2008 on 5:34 pm
Let me clarify, for hearing children, it is really less problem than deaf children because of limit of cognitive ability to access spoken language well enough.
November 6th, 2008 on 1:21 pm
David, I also think it’s a good idea for you to blog on http://www.terralingua.org/2/DeafHR.html
November 6th, 2008 on 4:25 pm
“… giving Deaf children Bilingualism as part of safety net.” by deaf chipmunk
“Speaking of school, everyone has no choice but learn English. It is really an unwritten rule.” by anne marie
i am not teacher myself. i think we fight against the wrong target. hospital is not school. but you give me great idea to find the loopholes to protect asl for baby’s right.
i think we should fight to focus on the target is SCHOOL for baby’s right to have education in language. we can’t stop parent for their options like ci, avt, cued cuz these are just tools to communicate in english.
however in school, it is mandatory for any children to learn language, math, science, reading, art, etc… that parent have no control over the education’s system for their option. right?
now we have to convince our congress or education board/commission that asl is real language for deaf to have bilingualism as “safety net” in education. avt in speeching, cued, see, pse are not considered in real education but just mode tool for english.
i knew someone else left comment that asl is not for every deaf. i beg to differ. like i said math or art is not for everyone but why they are still required to learn these in education. bottom is cuz language, math, science, reading, art, etc are proved to be “safety net” as asl in natural language for deaf is also “safety net”. “safety net” is better education.
i think we find the loophole in school’s system to considered as “safety net”. like anne marie said, “Speaking of school, everyone has no choice but learn English. It is really an unwritten rule.” she is wrong about part of “unwritten” rule. english is already written rule as bylaws somewhere to be mandatory for school. why can’t we convince our congress or education board to pass the law or rule whatever to include asl among language, math, reading, science, etc… so avt CAN’T either remove or prevent asl if the rule become written by congress or education board whatever!
deaf buzz
November 6th, 2008 on 4:37 pm
oops, whenever i said asl in education, i mean to include bilingualism too because it is important to learn both english and asl together to be mandatory at school.
deaf buzz
November 6th, 2008 on 8:53 pm
Hi John and Mishkazena,
I am not sure I should do that in my vlog because I am not expert in the field of that. I will figure that out and see how it can reach to everyone.
Will see….
Deafchip
November 6th, 2008 on 9:01 pm
Hi AnneMarie and cuong aka buzz
Yes ASL and English are languages, not tools or communication systems.
Yes I am very much aware that parents are very protective of their rights. No question about that. We need to explain that parents rights are not reduced but rather improved when their children get their full access to languages. There are many challenges out there. We need to bring in legal, advocacy and marketing to the hearing world about bilingual for Deaf babies/children.
I better go now and I won’t be able to respond till next Tuesday or making a new vlog (another hot debate again??? eh!)
Deafchip
March 27th, 2009 on 6:15 am
I concur with the guy about the positive inputs for the shocking devastated parents to retain the joy to have their normal DEAF babies!!
I see people with oral or no sign language grew up suffered so long with long oppressing society. I agreed with the deaf chip.
Contrary to my experience for my hearing child with minor disablity. He was born. I was overjoyed till the doctor informed me. ALL my exciting was totally crushed. I was so devastated that the hopsital: social worker and doctors did not give me the fully access to have the resources: interpreter and resources of his disabiblity programs…. I still struggle for ten years today…. They tend to put wrong program caused my child increasingly frustrates daily. They labeled the wrong term for my child.
I understand for the parents with deaf newborn babies get impact with the shocking news and lost their mind. The abusers ( doctors(ENT) or social worker or ci specialist or audiologist or speech therapist) can get the advantage to deprive the vunerable parents’ rights.
My strongly believe that the professionals in the hosptials give the new hearing parents with the newborn babies the Deaf community resources and refer them immediately into the deaf community. They can get the better resources to help the parents to understand the steps of emotions to be heal. They can make the decisions clearly… * REMEMBER Listen to CHILD or BABIES have the rights to answer no if they not want avt or ci etc. let them be happy. ”
Deaf communities,Hearing parents with deaf newborns and deaf children build the bridge together. AVT CI and ENT always give mislead information; break the bridge.
I had experienced with the audiologist test to use avt that i felt offended. I realized that it is totally oppressed!
EDUCATE THE PROFESSIONS IN THE HOSPITAL!!!