Bad news for you. Your baby is deaf! Sorry!
Posted on November 2nd, 2008 by webmaster
The Health Care system’s negative approach toward deaf can be prevented! The approach can be changed to positive by empowering and providing parents healthy information about Deaf resources and Bilingualism (ASL and English).
Hey David!
I agree with you all the way. the parents of Deaf babies tend to look at doctors and audiologists as Gods, but the doctors and audiologists are just imperfect human beings like us, not Gods!
Hi, David,
Yeah, I never forget the experience I had with a nurse who thought my son might be Deaf. Her reaction was so unprofessional. It was so uncanny! From this experience, I would like to anyone experience the positive regardlessly!
David,
I strong agree with you and that we should do something about it.
We should contact many parents as we can to hear their experience at that moment and if the nurses, doctors and other medical personal really need to be trained more about how to approach the newly parents and if they need more education, workshop or whatever about that Deaf babies are not defective and can live in a normal life.
Maybe someone can contact NAD to go to Congress and ask for mandate that all medical people to be taught by the Deaf people, professionals(not the so-call “paper smart” hearing people) that Deaf babies can grow up normal if focus on the educating the mind of the Deaf child.
Hear and Speak is the vocational aspect towards Deaf babies, we need to focus on the Mind(BRAIN) that desires higher academic education philosophy by getting cognitive development skills to learn how to learn from age of 0 to 8 by learning ASL.
Yes, DBC will do something about it BIG TIME!
Walk with DBC,
John
Wow. The health professionals sure sound like bogeymen!
As healers, physicians are trained to treat medical conditions, including deafness. Most of the medical doctors aren’t even aware of Deaf Community and ASL.
Most, I repeat, most parents are not aware that doctors are on Cochlear Implant Corporations’ payroll. CIC even puts the successful implanters on their payroll and have them attend AGB workshops. Doctors cleverly in a most deceptive manner ever imaginable announce, “You have a baby boy” and pause and say, “BUT he has no language. Bewildered parents would ask
doctors, “What do you mean by ‘no language’?” Then parents
feel as if they were being crashed by the Empire Building.
Doctors avoid reading the NAD’s position paper about ASL and
CI to parents. It is quite frustrating about today’s doctors
and audists and deaf audists.
DeafChip –
I agree with you 100%! Yes, this is part of where it all starts! Other part is Early Intervention where they present biased information against sign AND pressure the parents to make a choice NOW! Of course time is of the essence but when they rush the parents of course the parents don’t get the time to think and explore other ideas, INCLUDING using sign…..
Hi Darryl,
Great to see you again! Just wanna let you know I have know some audiologists and medical doctors are pro Deaf people. Yes Some of them are not very friendly to Deaf COmmunity based on ASL and Deaf Culture. They need to be trained properly. That will make the difference. Keep in touch. Its great to have you involved!
Deafchip
Hi deafk,
Yes I have met many parents who have shared similar situation like yours. It is very unfortunately that it has happened all over the world with the kind of attitude. Hope one day, they will be trained properly to respect human beings no matter what. All human beings should be treated equally regardless of their difference. I am glad you have brought it up.
Deafchip
Hi John,
I am very glad that you and i have shared same view (open minded). Yes medical institution needs to improve their performance and behaviour toward human beings regardless of their difference. Yes I am very much thrilled that DBC is on the roll and has a huge number of membership. That is awesome!
Deafchip
Hi A Deaf Pundit
Thanks for your response. Will you be able to explain a bit more about that if possible?
Deafchip
Hi Mishkazena,
Thanks for your response. I want to say that I disagree with your comment. I have been involved in medical institution for more than 2 decades. Evidences are there based on parents’ comments. Honestly I am quite surprised you have seen differently. Yes there are a very few medical specialists are doing great but a huge number of them are not and even refuse to listen to our argument. They already set their belief that sign language is bad. They are highly trained and educated and there is NO EXCUSE for them to make any excuse. I am a manager I know my job and I expect my employees to do professionally without any looking down or putting down people/consumer/client. NEVER putting down anyone.
Thanks
Deafchip
Hi Jean,
I am Canadian and I have no idea how the health system work in the states. In Canada, government has health insurance (paid from employers and employees and even taxes). That is why I have no idea how it works.
Thanks so much for sharing your comment with us. We must be ready and keep our eyes on that. It is very sad that it has happened. It is time for us to make them accountability to that kind of unethical approach. Thanks so much
Deafchip
Hi Deafchip,
Well. They sure sound scary, don’t they? Greedy and they hold ALL of the power! Nothing that we do will ever get through to them. So I’ve seen the light. We must BLAST them with all of our rage, until they go away!
No?
Hi Don G!
Yes I agree there are many avenues that we need to focus on. We need to change from negative to positive approach on Deaf babies as well as ASL/Culture. We need to eliminate the roots of cause first and then many Deaf children and their parents will appreciate that. We have to restore empowerment to parents and rights to Deaf babies.
Thanks
Deafchip
Hi A Deaf Pundit,
Thanks for your quick response. We need to push for a change in medical institution to improve their approach toward parents of Deaf babies. For example Re-defining Deaf is one of the ideas and there are many different avenues to change from negative to positive approach. Anything is possible but for now, their negative approach to parents are unacceptable. They should have known better. Because I have seen some of them are wonderful and there is NO excuse for huge number of others who have very negative views on Sign Language that we value very much.
Thanks
Deafchip
Let me try again. At the medical schools, the doctors are trained to address deafness as a medical issue. The professors at these schools are not familiar with the Deaf Community and ASL. We need people to go to these medical schools and educate them about the ASL and Deaf Community, so these aspects will be explored in the classrooms. This approach had been tried in the past by several Deaf people and the medical students were receptive.
Hi Mishkazena,
Thanks for your clarification Yes we need to work on that approach. Educating them is very important part and we need more than that such as public awareness, human rights, strict code of ethics for medical professionals and many other factors. We know some of medical specialists have refused to change their views on the term of deaf and Sign Languages no matter how hard we try. That is one area we need to work on because it is a very serious issue that has impacted on parents and their beloved Deaf babies.
Again, thanks for sharing your input with us.
Deafchip
Yes. We also must be sure to tell them that if they do not accept what we say, they are evil audists and must be deprogrammed!
*glares*
A deaf Pundit
I am not interested in your Deaf Radical Boogeyman comment because it does not provide any good argument or discussion. I think you know my answer.
Thank you
Deafchip
Pundit, I am VERY disappointed in you. We disagree on methods of approach to Hearing communities, but our goals have been the same (I think). But your last two comments, instead of disagreeing with our approach, you are deliberately trying to twist our words and ideas into some imagined evil radical version purely for the sake of trying to turn people against us. What DeafChip pointed out was true and reasonable. He (and I) agree with what MZ said in #18. This is all we are saying. SO WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS? You are giving me (and others, I’m sure) the impression that ultimately, you really DON’T want to see change happening. You say you’re an activist and a leader. Fine. Then walk the walk and TALK THE TALK!
Dong,
I’m DEAF Pundit. I find it interesting that you keep omitting the deaf from my name.. Guess I’m not deaf to you, eh?
Yes, I admit I was being sarcastic, and I find it extremely amusing that nobody caught on until my third comment. And tell me, how am I twisting the words? I am merely repeating them back to you. Many of you said those words to me, my friends and many others.
And this vlog is no different than what I repeated back to you.
Live with it.
A Deaf Pundit
Actually I know your comments above are insulting on purpose. I responded to your 1st and 2nd comments in “courtesy” until the third one, you are OUT. Your last comment to Don G is degrading.
You are always welcome to view my vlogs but your comments will not be published in my vlogs indefinitely.
Deafchip
Deaf Pundit,
It is time that Deaf children like mine need good education and we need to work on that.
Since last summer, you and a few others have developed a reputation of being a troublemaker as you said above, “Yes, I admit I was being sarcastic”
It is time to change, deaf pundit, you need to start thinking positive directions for our Deaf babies and our children in schools instead of your personal self.
Pundit…
Rage is not the answer. Giving Hearing (or Deaf) people hard times is not the answer. So, discussion, or explanation with them is the key to educate them. They need to understand why they need to change. So, they would not change until they understand why it is necessary to change. Thank you.
Hi Deafk,
You got it right. We need to push for a change until they understand. If they do not accept that, then we have to consider options to take appropriate action.
We have three main tools that are marketing, advocacy and legal, three of them are part of education. It is like a stool with three legs. If we know they are doing wrong, we have to take proper action in proper channel.
Thanks
Deafchip
Jeannette –
You are making much ado about nothing. If you’ve followed my vlogs, you know I tend to abbreviate the screen names to save a little typing — Deaf Chipmunk becomes DeafChip, MishkaZena becomes Mishka or MZ, and you have been Pundit — I know, you know, we all know you’re Deaf. So a bit redundant to have to add the Deaf in there.
It is interesting you feel slighted by the way I refer to you — if I so chose, I could take offense at your continued lack of capitalization of my last initial, transforming my name into a vulgarism. But I don’t care about it and I haven’t brought it up — that’s not what’s important.
And I also find it interesting that you think nobody caught your sarcasm until the third time. We all caught it the first time, but we chose to address you with, as DeafChip says, “courtesy”.
You are really losing credibility arguing this point here…..
But I’m not going to take up more of DeafChip’s space here by quibbling with you. Choose to believe what you want. Do things the way you want and let us try to get what we want our way. Maybe in the end, the two-pronged approach will work better than one single spear.
Don, considering the significance of being Deaf in the Deaf Culture, I do find your removal of Deaf from Deaf Pundit odd. You kept Deaf in DeafChip, so apparently the word isn’t too redundant. Perhaps you can think about using D.P. or another abbreviation with Deaf in it.
About the context of the message, D.P. does have a good point. We can educate the Deaf Community the best way to advocate for the Deaf babies without painting a negative image of doctors as manipulative, scheming, taking advantage of clueless hearing parents. That inaccurate image doesn’t reflect their professional training to view deafness as a medical condition. After all, we are talking about medical doctors here who were not given any formal education on ASL and Deaf Community in their graduate schools.
Fascinating.
PUNDIT, Dr DonG could also take offense at your omitting the Dr in front of his name (notice the lowercase “r,” but I digress) if you are going to get all hissy about that.
You and a few others seem to be more interested in stirring up trouble than really doing advocacy work. The ASL Think Tank has had no new entries since February, and Amy’s vlog that you keep referring to was done over a year ago. What’s new? Inquiring minds want to know.
Your bait-and-switch tactics have long since grown old. If you’d pour the energy you expend here online angrily reacting, you could accomplish amazing things… even more amazing things if you work with a group (any group). Time to rethink your tactics, Pundit.
Hello Don G
I must agree with your vlog! Most professionals at the hospital think “deaf” is negative. I strongly believe that some people who work at the hospital or audiologist haven’t experience to work with deaf person or met an adult person or studied about deaf culture. Most professional find the definitions of “deaf” is a medical word and sound negative. Again, most professional believe to “fix” for the deaf babies but we can’t fix for the deaf to become hearing. In addition, professional are focus on money to make deaf babies to become hearing. We must find different ways what deaf babies can be successful by using two language. It is so important for deaf babies have language acquire. It is very significance for babies have language skills! It is important for parents to enjoy the deaf child in their life and it is not easy to say it to enjoy. People need to enjoy with a deaf child will always be happy than focus on the grief, sadness, and angry.
Thank you
I have been called Chip, Chipmunk, Deafchipmunk, Deaf Chipmunk and Deaf Chip. I do not have any problem with that.
What is so fuss about that?
All I want is to discuss about Deaf babies issue, not lowlife personal stuff and game.
Please do not do that again for the sake of our Deaf Babies and their family.
Mishkazena, there are some people out there do not share values of Deaf Culture and ASL. Yes they did manipulate and I have seen that. You cannot argue with my experience. It has happened in hospitals. If you disagree with me, that is fine.
Even some of medical professionals have made Signing Deaf Boogeyman and parents got that impression. You know some parents looked down on siging Deaf people and even covering their deaf children eyes. Even tell them do not see them because they are no good. That kind of attitude and behaviour is unacceptable and degrading Deaf community. That is the root of cause. You cannot make any good out of some professionals and they still do practise negativly against Deaf community. We should be various options to take action to stop audism same way with other groups with racism, sexism, any other isms.
Again I want to emphasize that there are many wonderful medical professionals that have saved many people. I do appreciate that. But you must recognize that there are few people are not good to people. Policies, guidelines, regulations should be audism free. ASL should be supported and embraced. If they do not practise or accept that, what should we do? Do it properly, NOT neglect!
I know you do care about Deaf babies. I know we have shared same vision for Deaf babies. I know we have different view on how to approach.
I would like to see any personal or irrelevant issue out of Deaf babies discussion for the sake of Deaf babies and their parents.
I am a very proud to be DBC member. DBC is growing and still does. Yes people are proud to be members of ASL Task Force. That is wonderful. We share same goal. We know approach is different. We need to work together based on goal and we need to leave each other alone about approach.
If that happened, I would stand on the stage and I open the card and I sign:
The winners are…
“DEAF BABIES and THEIR PARENTS!”
Thank you
Deafchip
Let’s not forget the Supreme court views parental rights as fundamental. Let’s also not be “little people” with small minds but “big people” with great minds.
For a moment, let’s pretend you are NOT deaf and you are a doctor, you have NO clue about the deaf world….you deliver a baby to any parents, deaf or hearing and upon testing the baby, you find out that the baby is deaf. It is clearly understandable that a doctor would be reluctant to share the bad news for he knows no better! Give them doctors a break, will ya. The best thing we can do is to educate them. I have told my doctor beforehand, if my baby is deaf, it is ok. Deafness runs in my family and I’m ok with it. As long as the baby is healthy, hearing or not, it is GOOD news to me.
I know it is offending to many of us, but, remember! Many hearing parents find the news very upsetting and Hey! You can’t blame them at all. Let’s be open minded about it and try to put ourselves in other people’s shoe.
Which is why it would be NICE if there are some sort of protocol at the hospital that requires doctors to refer these parents to some program where they will offer all information and resources both that covers ASL and other methods so that the parents will informed decision making. Look at this election, it would be unfair to force one side on an individual, we would do well to inform people of both sides/all sides so that we can make the final decision on our own. Likewise, it would be wrong to force the idea of ASL on babies, we need to make sure parents are given ALL possible information, both pro and con on language choice and methods, including tools.
Kudos to Deaf Pundit for making you all think! We need great discussions from great minds! You all ARE capable of having GREAT minds!
*parents will informed decision making* should be “Parents will be well informed on decision making”
Deaf Chipmunk, it is never my intention to deny that these incidents do happen. Unfortunately there are bad apples in all fields and medicine isn’t an exception. It’s my experience that many doctors are clueless about sign language and Deaf Community as in the medical schools, they are taught to view deafness as a medical pathology, just like other conditions and disorders. By the way, I am talking about doctors in general. I am not sure if you are addressing to all doctors or a specific speciality.
Yes, I am aware of the appalling behavior some hearing parents used to ’shield’ their Deaf children from seeing Deaf people using ASL. I lay the fault on the misleading and scare tactics of the oral education proponents biased against culturally Deaf people and ASL. In fact, I truly believe their conduct violates multiple laws. The not-for-profit organizations should be held accountable legally for promoting this blatant discrimination against a minority.
Candy,
Thanks for your response.
We all have to remember that parents’ rights are limited. The language rights have not been challenged yet. More and more professionals in linguistics have started to recognize that. One day you will see more about that increasingly.
Yes in the past, I supported parents informed choices concept. But the concept has been abused and distorted. Many parents end up complaining that they got misinformation and disinformation. It was there. Some professionals have abused their position to make decisions for parents.
For example, parents are forced to pick one, AVT or ASL by AVT/CI specialists. If they want ASL, then they are denied to use AVT. Is that choice? HELL NO. I support parents’ choices. I know a huge number of parents are more than happy to have both of them not exclude ASL. But it ends up very low percentage of Deaf children have ASL. Is that a choice? Of course not. I have been involved in medical health care system related to Deaf. I understand clearly. I know some professionals are wonderful and supportive. But some others have already abused. No question about that. there is no naive in that kind of situation.
Your explanation about choice, I would have supported that but in real world, it does not even exist. That is the problem. Who will enforce that. Nobody. It is toothless.
Therefore, parents’ rights have been violated.
We need law to protect parents rights and language rights for Deaf babies. That is all.
I am glad you bring up your discussion.
Thanks
Deafchip
Hi Mishkazena,
Thanks for clearing it up.
Yes I know some professionals are wonderful and of couse are not aware of that. But I want to emphasize that some of them know and still are very much against ASL and want to get rid of Deaf Community and Culture. Some of them already know. For example, what I recently made response to Candy about AVT and ASL. It is fact and it is everywhere here. Parents are complaining that their rights have been violated. You will see more and more issues about that in the very near future.
Thanks
Deafchip
Hello readers,
It is very unfortunate that people have made comments about me regarding sarcastic in The Deaf Edge. What they said about me not understanding about boogeyman and sarcastic is complete false. I know what it is all about but that kind of tone is the one I understand. So it appears that people who said about me are making assumption. Well let them do whatever they want! I do not want to waste my time on that. I want to focus on Bilinhgualism.
Thanks
Deafchip
Deaf Chip,
http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000000/00000075.asp
Check out this link…I believe that to force parents to provide ASL to deaf children will never be ruled by the Supreme court. That would be trampling over parental rights. Because ASL is NOT for every deaf child.
Deaf Chipmunk, the AVT programs are operated by oral educators, not medical doctors. I don’t mean to give you a hard time, David, but I am trying to understand this blame on general doctors. I can understand how C.I. surgeons would be biased, but I honestly feel the majority are doing this out of ignorance. Where did the audiologists and speech therapists learn ASL is bad? From their schools. However, with medical schools, the textbooks I checked referred to deafness as a medical pathology. I haven’t looked at any recently, but I did recollect that there wasn’t any mention of ASL and Deaf Community.
We need to provide professional education at medical schools AND medical seminars.
Candy,
Thanks for sending me document. As a Canadian, US Constitution and Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms have similar concept of rights. It is all based on judges and their interpretation that have affected everyone.
We know that parents rights have been changed gradually depending on some cases or should I say case by case. Parents are not allowed to use corporate punishment on their own children. About education system, yes it is parents’ decision.
But the bottom line is about language. that is different. I would like you to check UN information
http://www.enotes.com/genocide-encyclopedia/linguistic-genocide
Let you know that it may be applied to challenge.
Yes we have recognized that parents rights are very important. I am father of two children and I value my parental rights as long as they are respected.
I know we may discuss about that endless but that is part of diaologue….
Thanks
Deafchip
Mishkazena,
I think we got into wrong picture. Perahps your view on term of medical may be different from my view on it.
What I mean is about medical specialists on deafness “I dislike that term myself because there is no other way to say”. Yes CI and AVT specialists are working together and they tend to be part of medical insitution. General doctors are not a problem. We just found out that they just learned about Deaf at university for about 15 minutes to half an hour. That is one area you and I agree they need to be exposed more time.
Just focus on AVT, CI, ENT specialists that are still part of medical system because they tend to work together. Now you know who I am talking about. Some of them are supportive but most are not.
Deafchip
Thank you for the clarification, Deaf Chipmunk.
Yes, we need to emphasis on: education on the healthy aspect of Deaf Community and ASL via medical schools and medical professional seminars.
I wonder if the UN did not take into account with ASL as a language. It’s pretty clear, UN was looking at immigrants moving to another country. So, it can get really technical. I think with IEP, parents can make it a requirement that their child be provided instruction in ASL. Yet, what about parents who decide they do not want their child signing? There are parents out there with determination that their child not sign, for whatever reasons. I see a big difference compared to 20 years ago than now. Now, many parents seems to understand the importance of language. Parents either make sure their child can gain sound through C.I. and provide them with language (spoken and written) or ASL as a language. And if the parent opts for C.I., then they have their work cut out for them if they want their child to succeed. It takes a lot of effort on the part of the parent.
I agree with you that language comes first. I don’t agree with health, medical, and auditory-speech intervention and prevention philosophy to apply to all Deaf children. Some with light to moderate hearing loss do benefit from speech and hearing training. I’m interested in language promotion in Deaf child. I’ll post vlog tmw.
drmzz,
I agree that the Deaf community wants to be interesting in language promotion in Deaf child and advocate this direction more than medical and auditory-speech intervention.
I support DBC because of their concern about Deaf babies and children in school to be fully educated with a LANGUAGE at start rather than later after learning to hear and speak which effected me greatly. I did not realize how important visual language until I learned American Sign Language.
I am very disappointed about some group of people from ASL Think Tank of their actions toward DBC last summer. They seem to more concerned about their need to have glory upon themselves.
Let’s DBC do their agenda to stop the deprivation of the Deaf Babies’ mind to learn a visual language by walking the walk instead of these group such as ASL Think Tank and others to do nothing but talk the talk…. since over 100 years of waiting and waiting and waiting for the society to realize our need to have visual language to be productive in learning education.
MZ, Amy, deaf punkit, Annie Marie,…….Please don’t crab theory other Deaf group or people anymore. You show us how by walk the walk! Be a real leader!
I suffered and I say no more for Deaf babies to suffer!
Proud ASL’er
Hi Candy,
Anything is possible but of course we want to protect parents rights.
Do you think parents have rights to send their own children to work in early age such as labour slaves?
Do you think parents have rights to deny their children a language?
We believe every child has a right to language without any limit becuase language is their future needs.
I do not believe in parents’ dictatorial rights over their own children. THat is not healthy. We need balance and essential needs for children.
Now we are going to challenge that in the very near future. Marketing is not always the answer. Marketing, advocacy and legal can be used at the same time.
There are so many things that you may not be aware of. But time will tell.
Deafchip
I want to ask people who think I dont understand sarcastic. Some of you think its a joke.
But hey! Can I bring it up to make a point?
1) People who dislike the idea, are sarcastic at it.
2) People who support the idea, are sarcastic at it.
3) People who are neutral, are sarcastic at it.
a) Are above the same tone?
b) Are above the different tones?
If people choose (a), they need life skills training!
If people choose (b), they don’t need training!
Ex-oralist, the only problem last summer was DBC’s failure to be fully transparent. They became transparent when they acknowledged the role of Deafhood in thir site, so that resolved that transparency issue. Why do you keep bringing it up? Apparently you have no problem with DBC not being fully honest with the public.
The last time I see, asking for transparency does not mean crab theory.
Nobody is practicing crab theory here. We are exploring and discussing different topics. It’s natural to see agreements and disagreements. This is America where people can express their thoughts, not a Communist country.
Hi Mishkazena,
RE: #42 comment
Thank you for your response. We got to that point.
Thanks again
Deafchip
Hi Drmzz,
Yes I agree with you. I look forward to watching your vlog!
Cheers!
Deafchip
By the way, people have already accomplished a lot. ASL Think Tank is already very successful as a clearing house. We also made national contributions to advocacy and rights of Deaf people, including deaf children and interpreters. We will continue to make more accomplishments.
Hi ex-oralist!
You have said it all. Yes! That is as simple as the idea that all babies and children need protection of human rights!
Language is one of the most important aspect of human life!
Cheers!
Deafchip
correction: clearinghouse site
Mishkazena,
You are already well-known about how sly you are in misleading people!
AS you say #51, “We will continue to make more accomplishments”….for who? Your group’s egomaniac or the Deaf babies?
I don’t see it anywhere. Show me! Show the Deaf community your accomplishment!
I am getting tired of you and your group to “crab theory” other Deaf people or organization by your past actions.
To cleanse yourself, you need to stop your selfish attitudes and start helping Deaf babies and children in schools to be fulfilled with a visual language that enables them to learn other vocational tools such as speak and hear.
I think that DBC wants to see that parents are fully informed to decide what is best and many parents already do realize about ASL but seems that the other organization are having a big leverage to sway the parents from realizing that. And it is you and your misguided group seems to confuse everyone which these biased organizations are happy to have your kind of mixed thoughts that parents have the right to be misinformed but have to live with it. That is too ridiculous to accept and rectification is needed to be done about that kind of thinking.
An oralist, who suffered a lot!
Ex-oralist,
To write an article that will get attention and respect from professionals and parents takes about an average of about one to two weeks, few hours a day with several people working on it. It is a lot of work to “walk the talk” : )
We are volunteering and do what we can do. We are fine with few real good stuffs than to keep on blah blah.
Result: Our website’s google analysis shows about 8,000 visitors since Feb, each single different visitor. We received e-mail messages how professionals, university professors, and parents were able to use our factsheet and information for their own needs. Of last month, we got 431 new visitors and the average time each visitor spent on the web is about 2 min 30 sec.
How many entries do not count as much as quality of information and frequent visitors getting the right information, especially that it attracts parents.
I hope readers and bloggers here understand that there are several good organizations out there besides DBC that are doing their damndest via different advocacy approaches to get information about sign language as an equally viable option to hearing parents of deaf children. To accuse MZ, DP, and others of crab theory, sarcasm, selfishness, as troublemakers and so on is belittling their efforts.
My point here is that EVERYONE has something to contribute towards this cause, meaning DBC doesn’t have the corner market on this cause, this cause belongs to the deaf community. There will always be divergent views among even d/Deaf people on how to solve the problem of advocating and marketing ASL for deaf babies, but the cause is the one goal that DBC and other organizations are focused on.
The organizations’ approaches are all different but the destination is the same, folks.
Time to stop the hairsplitting and let each organization do its job.
AnneMarie,
Good!….as long you help Deaf babies to be fulfilled with visual language to learn English.
But you let your friends, MZ, Amy, deaf pundit continue to pull down other groups to help Deaf babies and children in schools to have bilingual language(ASL/English) to learn much as they can, but seems according to parents’ right to be misinformed by these biased organizations that don’t support visual language which you say that “it is up to the parents being gullible” and you say that it is fully informed decision regardless…Why?
NO NEED FOR DEAF BABIES TO SUFFERED LIKE I DID!
Ex-oralist
Ex oralist, sly? egomaniac? selfish? tsk tsk Don’t you know that once you restore into personal insults, that means you cannot discuss the topic.
Address to the topic, not the person.
When you are ready to talk on the topic instead of attacking people, then I’ll discuss with you. I am sure people don’t care to read petty personal insults as they are NOT constructive. They actually reflect poorly on the person who makes these insults.
I am getting the impression that some people consider different views ‘crab theory’. Yikes, that says a lot about intolerance to a diversity of thoughts and ideas. Do you tell think tanks, college students, forums, philosophers, and teachers that they practice crab theory, too?
I will show you my list of accomplishment if you show me yours
By the way, I appreciate Deaf Chipmunk’s approach. We are getting close in understanding where each other stands and it turns out we do agree on the goals. Thanks, Deaf Chipmunk
Mishka Zena’s messages are very dictatorial.
She is upstaging David’s vlogpost. Fans of
David ought to get out of Mishka Zena’s
hot oven.
One of the visitors, the most important question is why do some Deaf people feel threatened by healthy discussions? Deaf Chipmunk and I were actually making progress, understanding better where each other stand, then ex oralist came in to derail the conversation with ugly insults. What’s the purpose of his disruption of the constructive conversation? Then you came in, with more insults. I sure hope I am wrong, but I am getting the impression some of you do not want us to have a good and intelligent discussion. If that’s the case, I wonder why. I understand Deaf Chipmunk’s reasoning better now and vice versa. Does this make some people uneasy?
Something is going on here. I’ve already received comments about how a positive dialogue here was disrupted by others using fake names. It’s already very obvious to the spectators. They are also wondering why.
One of the visitors, please show me where I was being dictatorial in my comments with David. Asking for clarification is dictatorial? Listening to him and sharing my opinion are dictatorial? Please do clarify.
Lastly, Deaf Chipmunk, again I appreciate our thoughtful discussion.
deaf chipmunk,
i am not trying to take any sides to debate against each other but just voice my thought to respect everyone in balance of your blogs.
i am all for your positive vibe should be brought in doctor’s or nurse’s attitude to calm parent about deaf baby after newborn hearing test. deaf is not end of world. hospital should be added to training program how to handle positive response.
any hospital should be mandatory to include asl in the unbiased information but you CAN’T omit the avt, ci, cued, oral, etc… in brochures because the all information must be included equally as unbiased to provide to parent about all resource out there.
of course, avt & ci have a lot money from market to invest $ in designing good brochures to attract parent’s favour. asl is free and don’t have stock or market to invest any $ in designing nice brochure. can you get federal money to invest $ in designing brochure look professional for asl to keep head of other avt/ci?
please keep in mind that parental rights still does exist to make decision by parent for deaf baby. but you can sue hospital for discrimination against asl by being favour in avt or ci as long as you pass the bill for the hospital to be mandatory to provide all unbiased information without being in favour.
the parental rights is valid that no one can’t sue parent’s choice vs baby’s right language. that mean you or our deaf community must be proactive to advocate asl on unbiased information among others like avt, oral, cued, etc… in equally but hopefully unbiased information will reel parent in to check out the asl if it will benefit their baby than ci or avt if it requires parent’s time to learn asl too. that leave us the part to convince parent about good thing to invest their time in asl but not to paint the doctor or nurse the evil but we should paint the avt/ci the evil cuz ci can be risk for surgery then why risk baby’s life.
off the point, long story short, i personally asked the lawyer the hypothetical question. he is specialized in disability law. can any hearing parent can decline (reject) the hospital’s offering an asl interpreter for their deaf child cuz parent rather want to interpret for their child against their child’s wish? unfortunately, lawyer said that hospital has to honor parental rights first before their child’s right. i asked a lawyer different question to let me put it another way. what if deaf child is abused by parent who hit their deaf child with bruise. what if doctor asks the child what happens to the bruise but parent takes over to interpret in order to cover up their mistake and said something else that their child fell from upstairs. so the question is how will doctor knows if parent tell the truth or not for their child’s bruise.
lawyer said that no matter hospital still has to honor parental rights to interpret for their deaf child for whatever their reason is perhaps privacy. only thing that hospital personnel can do its duty to suspect anything else like odd story didn’t support the bruise before to report it to police. police only can take over to inspect. the bottom is, parental rights remain to empowered the rights to parent over baby’s language. of course, you are right that parent can’t take over right to injure or to kill baby’s body.
the question, do you think you find the loophole to prove baby’s right for language over the parental rights. i suggest you check double with your top best lawyer’s interpretation to prove me wrong. of course, i want to be wrong in order to save baby’s right. but please don’t confused the issue between language vs body for baby’s right.
cuong aka buzz
Hi cuong aka buzz
I find your comment very interesting and I really appreciate your point of view.
I just tried to make a point about parents’ rights. The law has power to limit parents’ rights based on various reasons such as abuse, mental abuse, neligent and many others.
There are two different concepts of rights and options (options: usually reserved for parents).
Every child has a right to access language that no one on earth can take away.
Every parent has a right to make options for their own children as long as options do not interfere rights.
Options are not languages but tools.
Many parents have been overrwhelmed due to too many options that they tend to get confused and tend to accept specialists’ recommendation(s). Many of them end up unhappy with recommendations later. Many of them wish they could do differently. Is marketing fair for them because it looks good but in reality, it does not. For example, dealer sells car that attracts buyer who has no idea what the car would be like in the future. Then the buyer bought it and found out later that it is not what he wanted.
That is one area I am very concerned about and is very UNFAIR to all parents and their own children.
Make sure parents are given full support by giving Deaf children Bilingualism as part of safety net.
That will help parents a peace of mind and give parents real control, not anyone but parents.
Yes the challenge has not been in court yet but it will someday because there are working case on that now.
We do not take parents right away, but we just want to protect human rights for babies.
Oh yes parents have every right to know all options and language rights as well.
The problem is that the some people have abused the system that concerns me the most.
We still very much respect parents’ rights. No question about that. I am a father and my parent rights are very important to me
Deafchip
cuong aka buzz
I forgot to add…
Parents can make decision about options such as want their children to use AVT. That is part of options. English and ASL are not options but language. So people tend to confuse that ASL is not a language but a tool. that is not correct. English is a language therefore ASL is a language. If parents want their baby to use hearing aid, that is option and many other stuff.
I know some people do not agree even if they understand or do not understand my discussion… That is fine with me.
It is important for people to be aware of our deep concern about the system.
Deafchip
Mishkazena, your recent response about me is appreciated.
I hope one day we all work together for the best interest of Deaf babies and Bilingualism.
Deafchip
cuong aka buzz, that is an interesting dilemma. I would consult an ADA lawyer. I don’t know if this subject has been covered or not. This is disturbing, I must admit.
Deaf Chipmunk, me too
Elizabeth
Hi everyone!
I have information that we would like to share with you. It is about lingustic genocide research. It is an excellent resource that I am sure will benefit everyone to understand views.
Here it is http://www.terralingua.org/2/DeafHR.html
Thanks
Deafchip
David,
I suggest you to make another Vlog/Blog about your #66.
Gosh, that is so important and needs to be reached to more readers/viewers in DR!
This is amazing!!!! ….about http://www.terralingua.org/2/DeafHR.html
Respectfully yours!,
John Egbert
I like the idea of making it real clear to parents that ASL IS NOT a tool or communication system, just like English is not so.
I also find the concept of parental rights over language choice for their children indeed intriguing. Very powerful I think.
Suppose parents decide that their kids speak only Spanish, no English at home. That is their business, we cannot tell them what to do. See. Speaking of school, everyone has no choice but learn English. It is really an unwritten rule.
Speaking of Deaf ed program, it varies. Now it leaves to “guess” the child’s capacity to acquire English alone without ASL. I strongly agree that it is always a risk. Always.
The question is “taking a risk and see hope” violation of human right to language? ASL is becoming more readily available than ever that lack of support and implement is becoming inexcusable and discriminatory and violation of human right?
Hmm..
Let me clarify, for hearing children, it is really less problem than deaf children because of limit of cognitive ability to access spoken language well enough.
David, I also think it’s a good idea for you to blog on http://www.terralingua.org/2/DeafHR.html
“… giving Deaf children Bilingualism as part of safety net.” by deaf chipmunk
“Speaking of school, everyone has no choice but learn English. It is really an unwritten rule.” by anne marie
i am not teacher myself. i think we fight against the wrong target. hospital is not school. but you give me great idea to find the loopholes to protect asl for baby’s right.
i think we should fight to focus on the target is SCHOOL for baby’s right to have education in language. we can’t stop parent for their options like ci, avt, cued cuz these are just tools to communicate in english.
however in school, it is mandatory for any children to learn language, math, science, reading, art, etc… that parent have no control over the education’s system for their option. right?
now we have to convince our congress or education board/commission that asl is real language for deaf to have bilingualism as “safety net” in education. avt in speeching, cued, see, pse are not considered in real education but just mode tool for english.
i knew someone else left comment that asl is not for every deaf. i beg to differ. like i said math or art is not for everyone but why they are still required to learn these in education. bottom is cuz language, math, science, reading, art, etc are proved to be “safety net” as asl in natural language for deaf is also “safety net”. “safety net” is better education.
i think we find the loophole in school’s system to considered as “safety net”. like anne marie said, “Speaking of school, everyone has no choice but learn English. It is really an unwritten rule.” she is wrong about part of “unwritten” rule. english is already written rule as bylaws somewhere to be mandatory for school. why can’t we convince our congress or education board to pass the law or rule whatever to include asl among language, math, reading, science, etc… so avt CAN’T either remove or prevent asl if the rule become written by congress or education board whatever!
deaf buzz
oops, whenever i said asl in education, i mean to include bilingualism too because it is important to learn both english and asl together to be mandatory at school.
deaf buzz
Hi John and Mishkazena,
I am not sure I should do that in my vlog because I am not expert in the field of that. I will figure that out and see how it can reach to everyone.
Will see….
Deafchip
Hi AnneMarie and cuong aka buzz
Yes ASL and English are languages, not tools or communication systems.
Yes I am very much aware that parents are very protective of their rights. No question about that. We need to explain that parents rights are not reduced but rather improved when their children get their full access to languages. There are many challenges out there. We need to bring in legal, advocacy and marketing to the hearing world about bilingual for Deaf babies/children.
I better go now and I won’t be able to respond till next Tuesday or making a new vlog (another hot debate again??? eh!)
Deafchip
I concur with the guy about the positive inputs for the shocking devastated parents to retain the joy to have their normal DEAF babies!!
I see people with oral or no sign language grew up suffered so long with long oppressing society. I agreed with the deaf chip.
Contrary to my experience for my hearing child with minor disablity. He was born. I was overjoyed till the doctor informed me. ALL my exciting was totally crushed. I was so devastated that the hopsital: social worker and doctors did not give me the fully access to have the resources: interpreter and resources of his disabiblity programs…. I still struggle for ten years today…. They tend to put wrong program caused my child increasingly frustrates daily. They labeled the wrong term for my child.
I understand for the parents with deaf newborn babies get impact with the shocking news and lost their mind. The abusers ( doctors(ENT) or social worker or ci specialist or audiologist or speech therapist) can get the advantage to deprive the vunerable parents’ rights.
My strongly believe that the professionals in the hosptials give the new hearing parents with the newborn babies the Deaf community resources and refer them immediately into the deaf community. They can get the better resources to help the parents to understand the steps of emotions to be heal. They can make the decisions clearly… * REMEMBER Listen to CHILD or BABIES have the rights to answer no if they not want avt or ci etc. let them be happy. ”
Deaf communities,Hearing parents with deaf newborns and deaf children build the bridge together. AVT CI and ENT always give mislead information; break the bridge.
I had experienced with the audiologist test to use avt that i felt offended. I realized that it is totally oppressed!
EDUCATE THE PROFESSIONS IN THE HOSPITAL!!!