Deaf or Hearing – ASL Invention?
by webmaster on Mar.21, 2008, under ASL
Deaf or Hearing – ASL Invention?
This is just my view and your inputs (agree or disagree with my view) are welcome. I have wanted everyone to learn more about our history, culture as well as language of Deaf community!
This is my website, and it has taken me more than one month to finalize it. I hope you enjoy my website and the picture above is where Deaf Chipmunk lives. Lovely picture isn’t it?
Deafchip
14 Comments for this entry
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Canada
March 22nd, 2008 on 7:52 am
It is extremely difficult to identify the true inventor(s) of American Sign Language. It is not like a laboratory where there is a very clear process of what is going on and where all the happenings in the laboratory are properly noted in a lab book. When a new thing happens in the laboratory, it is easy to identify the researcher(s) as the inventor(s).
There are too many people that contributed to the development and growth of ASL. Some of them came from Native Americans. Some of them came from English people who settled in North America. Some of them came from France. Dr. William C. Stokoe theorized that a sign language started from gestures between hearing and deaf people during the earliest stage of the language. If we truly want to know who are the real inventor(s) of ASL, then these hearing and deaf people whose name we will never know are the true inventors.
Laurent Clerc is not a true inventor. He is only a contributor to the development and growth of ASL.
We should not forget that it is not only Dr. Stokoe that identified the linguistic foundations in ASL. There are two other people who did that and they are Dorothy
C. Caterline and Carl G. Croneberg.
Joseph Pietro Riolo
josephpietrojeungriolo@gmail.com
Public domain notice: I put all of my expressions in this post in the public domain.
March 22nd, 2008 on 8:56 am
Hi, David,
You got better video at last, grinning. My turn!!?
Nice picture and website!
BTW, I remembered now you challenged me when you bought the small refridgerator from me that you would be able to keep this refridgerator many, many years. Ha! You provided this!!
;D deafk
March 22nd, 2008 on 9:40 am
Hi Joseph Pietro Riolo,
I am very pleased that you have added more information about our ASL language. Yes Laurent Clerc did not invent ASL but just made it happened due to his decision to go to North America. Yes old FSL is not only one but is one of many other languages that integrated into one new language, ASL. Thanks for letting me know about two other persons, Carl Croneberg and C. Caterline who identified ASL as a language. Actually Dr. Carl Croneberg was my English Teacher in 1980 at Gallaudet University. I am still very impressed with him as a teacher. I have not seen or heard him ever since. Do you know anything about him lately.
Hi Deafk,
Yes I still have it and it is at my office. Smile
Deafchip
March 22nd, 2008 on 11:05 am
*confused*
Pretty actually since I knew about Veditz taught sign languages along with Adults and Children, when year time before 1900′s then exposed new “American Sign Languages.”
You was mentioned about Paris, France which there speaking their own languages due LSF simlair as LSQ.
Solution debate ?
March 22nd, 2008 on 1:42 pm
Perhaps, other words should be selected over the term “inventor” to describe the role that Laurent Clerc had in the development and growth of ASL. The words that I am thinking of are “promoter”, “booster”, “encourager”, “enabler” and “supporter”. Laurent Clerc is one of the prominent ASL’s promoters, for example.
I would avoid “inventor” because we have no clear evidence on how ASL started. ASL is like Mississippi River that comes from different sources and tributaries. However, unlike Mississippi River where its source can be easily identified (it starts at Lake Itasca in Minnesota), we can’t clearly identify the actual source of ASL. Thus, we are left with the theories on the source of ASL. The theory that makes most sense to me is the gestures between hearing and deaf people. Other theory that I have heard of but do not accept is the universal grammar. There may be other theories that I have not seen but the claim that hearing people started ASL does not have any theoretical basis.
I do not know anything more about Dr. Carl G. Croneberg. Others may fill in. I likewise am curious about him and Dorothy C. Caterline.
Joseph Pietro Riolo
josephpietrojeungriolo@gmail.com
Public domain notice: I put all of my expressions in this post in the public domain.
March 22nd, 2008 on 6:47 pm
Hi Terri,
No LSQ has nothing to do with FLS because LSQ was developed by Deaf Quebecers since Quebec was no longer under France so it has been under Canada for eons so there is almost no connection between Deaf Quebecers and Deaf French people at all. LSQ and FSL have been so different. Same idea with our ASL with BSL. Thanks for asking us valid question!
Joseph,
Your comment makes sense. Thanks for sharing your view with us. The word of invention seems too much individual rather than gradual progressive. Yes you are right that our ASL has not been identified percentage of different languages. To my understanding that ASL is about 60 percent of old FSL and the rest of others is about 40 percent. I guess it is more of guessitimate. To my understanding that some have argued that Native American Sign Language also has influenced ASL too. Very interesting isnt it?
Deafchip
March 22nd, 2008 on 9:35 pm
Hi David,
Welcome back on your vlog! I loved your photo above of your video. It reminded me of the Victorian era during 1880′s to early 20th Century especially my attraction to the felling leaves. Abstractially, it inspired my escape thoughts to involve in the natural environment. I would love to see more of your photoworks someday.
Anyway, I agreed all above of comments that no one invented ASL. In fact, Laurent Clerc contributed FSL to our Deaf-American students at ASD even the combination of Martha Vineyard and Native Americans for over years. Until William Stroke recognized our true language to identifize. Naturally, most deaf people have found many avenues to create some signs with facial expression, handshaping, classifiers, etc for over 200 years. If Sicard or Eppe does not invent sign language, we will not be here. Thank to them for their great influence on Laurent Clerc and Jean Massieau (sp error). I think I told you before. I visited Laurent Clerc’s birthplace in La Blame, France in 10 years ago. His presence touched my great deaf feelings and sense of ASL to be beautiful. Also I read his book once and I knew the scene in his birthplace well.
Thank you for your thoughts. Viva ASL!
Nick Vera
March 22nd, 2008 on 11:16 pm
what a nice blog you have!
http://wavingwithmydeafhands.blogspot.com
March 22nd, 2008 on 11:28 pm
Hi Nick
Thanks for sharing your experience in France and you visited Laurent’s birthplace. Wow, that is great and I hope one day I will visit there! Yep, I think the term of invention is not really a good choice of word. It is more of evoluating.
The picture is not my picture. I found it and I fell in love with it. I have decided to use that. The reason I picked it is that it is a perfect place for Deaf Chipmunk to wandering around. The chipmunk can hide in the shadow and show in the sunshine. Yes you are absolutely right that it looks so Victorian world! I wish I could find it. I do not know where it is.
David
March 23rd, 2008 on 1:03 am
Hi Deb ann
Thank you. That is why it took me a month to find a good one. Thanks again
David
March 23rd, 2008 on 9:03 pm
Best if you ask scholars in the Dept. of Deaf Studies at GU for accurate info. Martina Bienvenu, Benjamin Bahan, Dirksen Bauman. All you do is to type . Don’t use MJ
March 25th, 2008 on 8:25 pm
good thought provoking talk you !!
to respond different things you mentioned:
actually no one invent a language…language appears by itself in a community of users
it is not clear if clerc brought french methodical signs (like SEE), or natural language…perhaps both with his code-switching…as we can see from the oldest sign master from NAD’s preservation of signs collection – i think it was Fay – telling a story about clerc at ASD…from Fay, we could see he used more like natural…but in any case, it was deaf childern like at ASD who filtered and improved after frequent use (just like with pidginization/creole-ization process)…and we still do nowadays anywhere in USA/Canada as ASL is still evolving to meet our specific needs to communicate(e.g. to talk about new technologies, etc)
yes needless to say ASL was cross-fertilized with American Indian’s Inter-Tribal Gestures, Martha’s Vinyard Gestures, Home-made Gestures, and several others perhaps
it is interesting to see a head bust of L’Eppe at gallaudet entitled him as Father of Sign Language…we now know it is a myth but yes he invented Methodical Signs (SEE-like) which Clerc may at first learned but used the natural language of deaf children/people (in dormitories)
again it is very interesting to note that French Sign Language community may too had already been in existence before L”Eppe discover sign language…because there were Deaf leaders using Langue Francias des Signes (LSF), for example, the famous deaf Berthier, long before Eppe’s deaf school was established
Alice Cogswell may too had already used the natural sign language before being introduced to Clerc, bec we could see her letters to Gallaudet while he was at Paris with her strong ASL (?)…it is suspected there may had BEEN a budding sign language community already forming before clerc arrived…what clerc had accomplised was merely to formalize/standardize the evolving natural sign language into higher educational level with his modeling…that his students later became “sign masters” for others to copy and spread out into different deaf schools out in Wild Wild West
it was not stokoe who coined “American Sign Language”….it was in use long before but we mistakened it as for
Gallaudet-ese (Manual Coded English)…it was why Lou Fant coined Ameslan but linguists who later then said “American Sign Language” is the language anyway…so “Ameslan” fell to be no longer in use.
i question if stokoe invented the parameters of an ASL word (sign), because if you could look back in When The Mind Hears, it was Abbe Sicard’s (hearing) nephew, Bebian, from St. Martinique island (french colony) growing up playing with deaf children at the deaf school in paris…he actually invented the parameters (handshape, palm orientation, movement,…) so to me he was the first natural sign language linquist !!!?
in short, no one invent a langauge…who invented English, Russian, Chinese, etc etc one may ask ??? ….no one should get credit for it but everyone who use !!
just throwing in different perspectives perhaps to get better grip for more real Deaf History ( we are very much indebted to Dr Harlan Lane who recorded our linquistic history !!)
March 26th, 2008 on 11:48 am
oops, excuse my French !!! I said “Langue Francias des Signes (LSF).” when it shld been read as “La Langue Signes des Francais” am i right ?? smile
September 1st, 2010 on 5:30 pm
Hi! this was a nice share youve made. I will make sure to send this with my friends. Sign language is a very important topic we should discuss